Curse

Sagius Truthbarron · Nov 12, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

I think what Anet is doing is just to help out the newer players, the proverbial poor and lowly ones to like the game and stay with it, playing in whatever manner they would like to without having to be a W/mo, a Prot/Heal monk or Fire Ele.

If more people like the free play of the game they wouln't leave it. Alot of people leave MMORPGs becuase of the way people in them force them to play.

I don't think there is some grand conspiracy here to stop you from running your Ebay franchize, but rather to halt the socialist, black and white gamers who say "play this way or leave the game"

Really that's what the whole Nuker, Tanker, Healer build is.
It excludes the following:
Smiting monks
Curse Necros
Blood Necros (Non BiP or Well of Power)
Death Necros
Trappers
Beast Masters
Archers
Domination Mesmers
Illusion Mesmers
Inspiration Mesmers
Fastcast Mesmers
Air Eles
Earth Eles
Water Eles
Non-E/me fire eles
Energy Storage eles (E/mo healer, ect)
Variants thereof.

My main character right now is a Blood Necro. Yep, no BiP, no WoP. My friend's main character is [GHASP!!11] a E/W Sword-Fire-Earth ele. In the Tank, Healer, Nuker combo we couldn't possibly dream of getting a group in ToA.

Perhaps we didn't take henchies through the entire game. Then what? We would still be in Gates of Kryta screaming "LFG FOR MISSION + BONUS," two weeks after getting there.

What's the big deal? Get out of the mundane. Stop forcing players to play the popular way.

You don't have to take everyone no matter what. Just organize your group and work out the kinks. I know that IWAY and what I'll now call THN (Tank, Healer, Nuker) are there to stop people from actually using their brains. All IWAY warriors have to do is get Evisacre, Warriors Cunning, a pet, a spirit/sprint/rev, and a res signet. Everyone who knows how to play it has the same build. All anyone has to do is say "Spirit Check!" and they get the 4 things the Warriors need together.

What about THN? It's pretty much the same. Infact, less communication is used. Nobody needs anything in perticular that might conflict with someone else's build. So THN is much cheaper than IWAY and yeilds better PvE rewards than IWAY does.

Do we need THN? It's just oppression! Fight the power, brother!

Shadowdaemon · Nov 12, 2005, 08:40 AM // 08:40

oh i know all about not being in groups, here my characters
warrior/necro<--not a monk secondary, he will die, dont invite him
necro/ranger<--you got well of power, if not, you cant come
necro/warrior<--why does that necro got a sword, omfg lets go back to town
monk/necro<--i actually wanted to get to fissure, monk is the only way, but at least when they anger me they die

Fyre Brand · Nov 12, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Entragian

Because they're gonna be swinging their nerf bat at rangers next. If we hurry, we can get lvl'ed and get all our skills just in time to get ganked by the next update.

The dev team isn't swinging a nerf bat. I can understand that you're upset (if you're a standard fire elem) and you have to readjust your game play. But if you play a ranger you would know that rangers recently had a skill balance adjustment. It used to be that rangers could spam interupts like mad, and now they can't. No big deal you say? Well to rangers it was. I didn't really like that change, but I also see the necessity of it. Ranger interupts were out of control. I still use interupts (now I actually have to pay attention and time them) and I also have adjusted my ranger build in other ways. It made me think and I believe I have stronger builds because of it.

When grouped I normally smite/heal with my monk. This update will change how my AoE spells affect the hunt, but I'm getting new ideas how I can use the AI to my advantage.

Scorpion Boy · Nov 12, 2005, 09:22 AM // 09:22

I hate this update hope it will be changed back to the way it was.
Cause the day before the update i bought another account in the stores for a invinci monk...thats not what im gonna get if it stays this way plz change it back

unienaule · Nov 12, 2005, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Invincimonks still work. Fire still works. AoE still works. Patience is required.

Trinity Entragian · Nov 12, 2005, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by john little

I like the patch, it forces people to consider builds and skills they might otherwise have not used. My fire elementalist build has stayed pretty much constant since launch, filled up with fire AoE. Rangers have had to adapt their builds, Monks have, Warriors have, so why not the elementalist?

But the question remains - Why should ppl. be FORCED to change the builds they enjoy playing? This is a GAME. Its for FUN. If I enjoy playing a certain build, why should I be FORCED to change it?

If its diversity thats needed, why not give ppl. incentives to try other classes and builds? Not FORCE them into it. Do something to make the other skill sets (not to mention the less "understood" classes like mes) more attractive to the average player. Were such an approach taken, more ppl. would naturally gravitate toward them and a more diverse player base would emerge without alienating anyone.

In general, additions to gameplay options will be considered positive by the community at large. Subtractions (Nerfing) will be considered bad. You can't expand the scope and possibilities of the game by decreasing player options, but you can by increasing them...and the odds of the majority being happy will be much greater.

unienaule · Nov 12, 2005, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Why should rangers and mesmers be FORCED to wait forever to get in a decent group? They shouldn't. This expanded options. Sure, not as many people want echo nukers now. But, they should be more open to other classes now since fire "sucks" (it doesn't).

Pure Divinity · Nov 12, 2005, 09:47 AM // 09:47

I agree there are some things that have to be changed in Guildwars ®. But Arenanet changes the wrong things, why dont they change the 'market'. At Lions Arch many people are shouting at the same time, but why not make an update so people can set up markets and sell their stuffs.

This update should be deleted and everything changed back, the allready nerfed enough things......

Empirism · Nov 12, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

it seems to be that war between arenanet and farmers still goin strong.
with recent patch, in normal pve elementalist AoE spells become quite useless
they cost much, recharge long and you cant even do dmg with them anymore,

I counted many times that for firestorm example takes 2-3 hits before mobs move away, no matter if casters or melee mobs! and im not furnace farmer, just playin missions.

Meteorstorm is even more ridiculous, one hit with exhaustion, 25 energy cost and recharge long makes it last choise to get...if this patch stays as it is
I have to reconsider deleting my Elementalist

voted 2nd choise anyway...

00039 · Nov 12, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

single-hit nuking works just fine now since the mobs don't run at all after being pelted with a fireball, hell I already made a single-hit nuking build

Empirism · Nov 12, 2005, 10:06 AM // 10:06

as trinity said "But the question remains - Why should ppl. be FORCED to change the builds they enjoy playing? This is a GAME. Its for FUN. If I enjoy playing a certain build, why should I be FORCED to change it?"

I have to agree...just for stupid war between arenanet and farmers (my opinion)

Scaper · Nov 12, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

I think what Anet is doing is just to help out the newer players, the proverbial poor and lowly ones to like the game and stay with it, playing in whatever manner they would like to without having to be a W/mo, a Prot/Heal monk or Fire Ele.

If more people like the free play of the game they wouln't leave it. Alot of people leave MMORPGs becuase of the way people in them force them to play.

I don't think there is some grand conspiracy here to stop you from running your Ebay franchize, but rather to halt the socialist, black and white gamers who say "play this way or leave the game"

Really that's what the whole Nuker, Tanker, Healer build is.
It excludes the following:
Smiting monks
Curse Necros
Blood Necros (Non BiP or Well of Power)
Death Necros
Trappers
Beast Masters
Archers
Domination Mesmers
Illusion Mesmers
Inspiration Mesmers
Fastcast Mesmers
Air Eles
Earth Eles
Water Eles
Non-E/me fire eles
Energy Storage eles (E/mo healer, ect)
Variants thereof.

My main character right now is a Blood Necro. Yep, no BiP, no WoP. My friend's main character is [GHASP!!11] a E/W Sword-Fire-Earth ele. In the Tank, Healer, Nuker combo we couldn't possibly dream of getting a group in ToA.

Perhaps we didn't take henchies through the entire game. Then what? We would still be in Gates of Kryta screaming "LFG FOR MISSION + BONUS," two weeks after getting there.

What's the big deal? Get out of the mundane. Stop forcing players to play the popular way.

You don't have to take everyone no matter what. Just organize your group and work out the kinks. I know that IWAY and what I'll now call THN (Tank, Healer, Nuker) are there to stop people from actually using their brains. All IWAY warriors have to do is get Evisacre, Warriors Cunning, a pet, a spirit/sprint/rev, and a res signet. Everyone who knows how to play it has the same build. All anyone has to do is say "Spirit Check!" and they get the 4 things the Warriors need together.

What about THN? It's pretty much the same. Infact, less communication is used. Nobody needs anything in perticular that might conflict with someone else's build. So THN is much cheaper than IWAY and yeilds better PvE rewards than IWAY does.

Do we need THN? It's just oppression! Fight the power, brother!

Once again this will probably be erased because lets just say Anonmyous people want to silence me! All my previous post have been erased so I can only assume that this is conspiracy to silenced the OPPOSING partys! So you might have about 5 mins to view this, I'm betting!
Savio: Do you see anyone else trying to insult people by making political references and getting their posts deleted? No? Then learn something from them and stop it. As amusing as it is to delete all of your posts, seriously, just stop it. I WAS MERELY STATING A POLITICAL FACT DON"T BLAME ME THAT THE FACTS ARE TRUE. FINE ILL JUST LET THE PEOPLE FIND OUT FOR THEMSELVES!

Anyway here is my rebutale to that. First of all what the heck is,"FREE PLAY"? Is this some kind of term for, cool we all died was that FUN Or what? So going around dying all the time may be fun for some, BUT NOT for the Majority of GW players I can almost grantee that!

And no one says PLAY THIS WAY OR LEAVE! All they are trying to do is help people fix their builds. WHICH is my main point. Some Builds are just better than others that is the way the skills were made. DO NOT BLAME THE PLAYERS WHO CAN GET THEIR BUILD SMART EFFECTIVE! JUST BECAUSE YOU MAKE ONE BUILD DOES NOT MEAN U HAVE TO STICK WITH IT! this is what most think who are jealous of people who cannot adjust to a SMART build. Builds that you say are not MUNDANE they are smart and effective. You think people have not thought about switch to see if another build was effective? Well alot of people have tested other builds and they are simple put, terrible builds! Because the skills that are in those builds are not very effective in about ANY combo! Just ask around!

However, some builds are not all War/Mo, Mo, and Nukes! This is the most effective team when it came to killing large mobs! Other Builds are effective but only some times. Some Examples:

1. Smiting Monks Build in HOH I'm sure some have heard of this

2.Trapper builds in UW farming are very effective!

Wells thats some of the few that I know. And why should people have to switch their builds if they work huh? THE QUESTION you need to ask is WHY arent the excluded builds switching over? My guess to lazy or just not educated in the way to get them. It is not that hard to switch to an effective build so STOP complaining about its not fair that these builds are so good.

For example, I use to be a E/Mo and farm in FA farms. I could not get many jobs because i was not a Echo Nuke. So, all I did was go to Desert switch to Ele/mes and bought 1 skill the Arcane Echo. From their on it was simple as pie to get a job as FA farmer! In fact because the switch I gained more than 200k in less than 5 weeks!

BESIDES, one wrong does not make a right. In your example the good builds exclude you apparently. SO what now? Your going to justicify making the good builds junk, and now most builds are like the excluded builds? NO, if you have a problem with your build don't blame GW PLAYERS! Put your blame in the uneffectiveness of the skills that make the builds so lousy!

By the way IWAY does not work so good! Because they nerfed that too! IWAY used to be pratically unlimited to all dead bodies, but they changed it to less, I think the number was like 2 dead animals max for IWAY. So that build is pretty uneffective now.

If you think THN Tank Healer Nuker build is so bad because its so effective quit complaining cause that is a rediculus reason. And saying we dont have to use our brains for THK is complete nonsense. The reason why we have THN is becasue we have brains, and why you guys don't use these, well you tell me. These builds use to work good and yours did not simple as that. YES, we do need THN builds. What yoru asking is completely UNREASONABLE. "Fight the Power", in a way your right if you mean fight the power of reasonable logic, then yes, your doing a great job.

For example, why don't you go to the cops and say," hey why you use guns? Why not fight crime with broom stick, maybe its more effective?"

Who you going to blame when the cop dies because he was fighting crime with broom stick? The cop or the broom sitck? I would personally blame the guy who gave him the broom stick, BUT! You blame the broom stick Not the cop because he not prepared. Therefore, dont blame the builds, blame the lousy skills that they are accompanied by.

So in a nut shell, if we were a Police Precint, Anet just took away our guns and replaced them with broom sticks. Man this will be fun won't it?

Sincerly, Scaper

coolsti · Nov 12, 2005, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maugrim

Basically, this should make it easier to get necros and rangers into some groups instead of just the Ele, Warriors and Monks.

I just feel I have to comment on the above quote. Necros and Rangers are superb, interesting, and very useful character classes. As are Mesmers. It should be easy enough even before this patch to get into a group as necro or ranger. You just have to find the right group, that is, you just have to locate the right kind of players. I for one would NOT want to get into a group of PUGS as ranger or necro if that group of players wouldn't want these classes in their groups before the patch, because I just would not want to play in a group that thinks that way.

Bubble Ink · Nov 12, 2005, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by derrtyboy69

I vote to completely change it back to the way it was

Same.

Trinity Entragian · Nov 12, 2005, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Why should rangers and mesmers be FORCED to wait forever to get in a decent group? They shouldn't. This expanded options. Sure, not as many people want echo nukers now. But, they should be more open to other classes now since fire "sucks" (it doesn't).

lol..that was my point.

I understand the value of a good mesmer or ranger and sympathize with the frustration they feel when trying to get in groups. Personally, I have never discriminated against any class. One of my usual passtimes ingame is helping low lvls with missions and quests, and more often than not its these classes that I help, just because they have such difficulty getting in groups even at these levels.

All I'm saying is that I believe its possible to correct conditions for rangers, mesmers, or any other 'misunderstood' or overlooked class without harming (or giving the perception of harm to) another class. To use such tactics in an attempt to level the playing field is just a cheap quick fix that will solve nothing in the long term.

Oh and I don't play echo nuker, and have felt similar discrimination in places like SF because my E/Mo isn't considered worth as much to the team as an echo is.

I think the root problem with the issue of teams is not the classes, but the mindset and quality of the ppl. who play them. Every class has value, and a role to fill in teamplay. Trying to make ppl. understand this is the real problem here, and its a hard one to fix.

Scaper · Nov 12, 2005, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Entragian

lol..that was my point.

I understand the value of a good mesmer or ranger and sympathize with the frustration they feel when trying to get in groups. Personally, I have never discriminated against any class. One of my usual passtimes ingame is helping low lvls with missions and quests, and more often than not its these classes that I help, just because they have such difficulty getting in groups even at these levels.

All I'm saying is that I believe its possible to correct conditions for rangers, mesmers, or any other 'misunderstood' or overlooked class without harming (or giving the perception of harm to) another class. To use such tactics in an attempt to level the playing field is just a cheap quick fix that will solve nothing in the long term.

Oh and I don't play echo nuker, and have felt similar discrimination in places like SF because my E/Mo isn't considered worth as much to the team as an echo is.

I think the root problem with the issue of teams is not the classes, but the mindset and quality of the ppl. who play them. Every class has value, and a role to fill in teamplay. Trying to make ppl. understand this is the real problem here, and its a hard one to fix.

Um, how should I put this, just try to read my prevous post called DON"T BLAME THE GOOD GW PLAYERS FOr your TERRIBE BUILDS! please
And their is an direct example of that E/Mo build in SF form me just read my previous post please!

Thank You, Scaper

Feminist Terrorist · Nov 12, 2005, 10:55 AM // 10:55

I'd have to agree that you're not finding the right group if you're not being invited or, worse yet, booted. I enjoy playing with all types and have only booted someone in order to get a monk. Hey, I want to be healed, and a group with no healer at all is a dead group.

Enh, don't mind me: I'm still ticked off over the update and some people's intolerance for other playing styles. Lots of kiddies think that pve sucks and is gay, yet that's where they hang out. :/

unienaule · Nov 12, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

The problem with this update is that it is a "percieved" nerf. It's pretty dang balanced now.

Trinity Entragian · Nov 12, 2005, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaper

Um, how should I put this, just try to read my prevous post called DON"T BLAME THE GOOD GW PLAYERS FOr your TERRIBE BUILDS! please
And their is an direct example of that E/Mo build in SF form me just read my previous post please!

Thank You, Scaper

Just so you'll understand, Scaper-

I'M NOT BLAMING ANY GOOD GW PLAYERS FOR ANYTHING!

IN NINE CASES OUT OF TEN IT'S THE BAD, NARROW-MINDED PLAYERS WHO THINK THEY'RE GOOD THAT ARE THE PROBLEM!
please
And I did read your post. I have had a level 20 E/Me and deleted her because I didn't ENJOY playing Echo as much as I did E/Mo. I like being able to self heal and res if necessary, and have no desire to change my build just to satisfy someone elses short sighted conception of what works and what doesn't. Just exactly who are you to decide if my build is terrible or not? Has worked excellently for me since public release.

Thank you, Trin

Scaper · Nov 12, 2005, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Entragian

Just so you'll understand, Scraper-

I'M NOT BLAMING ANY GOOD GW PLAYERS FOR ANYTHING!

IN NINE CASES OUT OF TEN IT'S THE BAD, NARROW-MINDED PLAYERS WHO THINK THEY'RE GOOD THAT ARE THE PROBLEM!
please
And I did read your post. I have had a level 20 E/Me and deleted her because I didn't ENJOY playing Echo as much as I did E/Mo. I like being able to self heal and res if necessary, and have no desire to change my build just to satisfy someone elses short sighted conception of what works and what doesn't. Just exactly who are you to decide if my build is terrible or not? Has worked excellently for me since public release.

Thank you, Trin

Actually, You are blaming other players that have better builds. In my biggest post I explain this, but let me repeat it again. Why are you asking the good builds to switch over? The Question you need to ask is WHy the uneffective builds not Switching over? It has nothing to do with preferrenes its merely effectiveness.

For example, when FA farming, before they nerfed nukes, I was Ele/Mo. It took me about an average of 3 mins or more to kill one enemy. When I became and echo nuke it took about, lets see less than 1 min. So when I say I'm good its at killing, Its a fact not an opinion. The same with the builds its just a Fact: Some builds are just more effective and some are not! Simple as that!

If you don't want to change your build to be more effective for such little money thats find. But that is exactly why no one takes you on FA Farms, cause your un effective compared to echo nuke. Sure It does work in some instances, maybe if your going solo. HENCE, your actually contridicting yourself. Your saying basically this is to help team work, but its not is it? When your Echo Nuke your part of a team, and when you Ele/mo mainly being solo, so how this help the team effect?

Sincerly, Scaper